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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |

Rainbow Prism Colorblind
Deep Space Equinox The Nightingales of Hades
1
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Posted - 2013.08.06 12:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
I need to put in my 2 cent on this topic.
I see a lot of people complain that they need to jump every 12hr or so. A lot of you also saying you want to JC into same station without a timer.
Mostly of witch the reason you want it is to be 'safe' or not 'risk' anything. This is eve, the game is about Money and power.
A game without risk get dull an boring, also what about all gate campers? they like to play the game as well in there own way.
Equal much are the gate buster groups, both would be affected with to much change in time.
Making JC time down to 19h is good enough, even that is quite powerful to bypass gate camps or Blockades operations.
Oh and for people who complain it takes 40 jumps throw HS to get to the fun stuff, ever considering Driving throw Low-sec/null to reduce it to 10?
or get a Bypass rout throw a WH system?
My point here is this! the game need risk!, it is space, its deadly, and everyone is after to skinn you wallet dry!
That is how the game should be.
Thank you.
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Rainbow Prism Colorblind
Deep Space Equinox The Nightingales of Hades
1
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Posted - 2013.08.06 12:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:Rainbow Prism Colorblind wrote:I need to put in my 2 cent on this topic.
I see a lot of people complain that they need to jump every 12hr or so. A lot of you also saying you want to JC into same station without a timer.
Mostly of witch the reason you want it is to be 'safe' or not 'risk' anything. This is eve, the game is about Money and power.
A game without risk get dull an boring, also what about all gate campers? they like to play the game as well in there own way.
Equal much are the gate buster groups, both would be affected with to much change in time.
Making JC time down to 19h is good enough, even that is quite powerful to bypass gate camps or Blockades operations.
Oh and for people who complain it takes 40 jumps throw HS to get to the fun stuff, ever considering Driving throw Low-sec/null to reduce it to 10?
or get a Bypass rout throw a WH system?
My point here is this! the game need risk!, it is space, its deadly, and everyone is after to skinn you wallet dry!
That is how the game should be.
Thank you. I think you've focused on a very small group of people here and most people who use JC's don't do it for the "Risk Free Travel" but simply because what they want to do that day requires different implants and so they jump out of their "Current\Training\Whatever They Were Doing The Day Before Clone" and into their "Combat\Logi\Industrial\Scout\Gimp-in-a-Suit" clone. Right tool for the right job and all that...it's not always about PvP\PvP avoidence you know.
Like i Said, it is from my point of view, everyone have there own thing but for me, a game should be hard, so when you actually manage to do something you feel like you made a different and can puff out your chest and say " I am good!" ^^
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Rainbow Prism Colorblind
Deep Space Equinox The Nightingales of Hades
1
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Posted - 2013.08.06 12:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
I get that but let me put it this way and froma PvP perspective so you can relate: I wouldn't PvP in my Training Clone because...well...you just wouldn't as it's not optimal when you have a JC with Hardwiring\Snake\Slave\WTFIPWNANDWIN Implants in that you can use.
This change encourages more PvP amongst other things and with the same flexibility just at a more appropriate time to the paying customer. It address time-slip which is a big thing.
If you want MOAR PVP NOWZ then you should surely be behind this change?[/quote]
Witch comes to my point, this game is not a kindergarten.
if you want to train faster you have to risk/lose some to gain something.
and I said I have noting bad to say to the 5hr change, i was more concerned about how many trying to push it to jc every 4hr, Witch to me is pointless and another dumming down of the eve world.
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Rainbow Prism Colorblind
Deep Space Equinox The Nightingales of Hades
1
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Posted - 2013.08.06 13:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nova Satar wrote:people commenting in here about jumpcloning as a form of risk free travel are morons.
Jump cloning is almost purely used to switch between implant sets depending on what you want to be doing at the time.
Witch in turn make it less risk to just swap around implants at will.
if your not willing to risk the implants don't bother buy them perhaps? |

Rainbow Prism Colorblind
Deep Space Equinox The Nightingales of Hades
1
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Posted - 2013.08.06 13:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gospadin wrote:Rainbow Prism Colorblind wrote:Nova Satar wrote:people commenting in here about jumpcloning as a form of risk free travel are morons.
Jump cloning is almost purely used to switch between implant sets depending on what you want to be doing at the time.
Witch in turn make it less risk to just swap around implants at will. if your not willing to risk the implants don't bother buy them perhaps? Except that what actually happens is when people are stuck on the cooldown of the wrong clone with the wrong implants, they simply don't play. They don't join their friends on a lowsec roam, or they can't fly their special ship because they're missing that 3% powergrid implant, or they happen to be 40 jumps from anyplace useful and don't want to burn an hour traveling while their friends wait for them.
That Is why i said 5hr from skill is fine. But more then that is just pointless greed from lazy people.
Most ops should be announced at lest 24hr in advance, to give you time to get ships/items placed in stage areas etc. and to give time for jumping. Stressing and jumping had on is never a good idea anyway.
The 5hr delay would be good to keep jumps at a relative same time every day ^^ |

Rainbow Prism Colorblind
Deep Space Equinox The Nightingales of Hades
1
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Posted - 2013.08.06 16:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote: Why ?
Is it important to limit the fun ?
Skills for flexibility need to make in session swapping viable. This is not viable with your proposed idea A jump every 22 hours instead of every 23 hours is more or less pointless
Base time between jumps before any sync skill should be 16 hours. So I can do a 8 hour sess in a choosen clone each day and I'm not punished for starting 8 hours earlier at the weekend when I'm not working.
Each level of syncronisation skill should add 1 to maximum number of intermorphs I can accumulate before braindamage. one level of intermorph is removed every 16 hours from the last jump.
e.g. at level 3 sync I can make up to 4 jumps in a burst if I want but it will take
4 x 16 hours for the intermorphs to reduce back to 0.
I have to answer this, everyone want to have fun right now with all skills and unlimited isk, you want a 'i win' button.. then what?..
I myself prefer a little hardship, know that you achieve something when you reach your goal.
I liked this game over other online games just because it is so darn hard! :) |

Rainbow Prism Colorblind
Deep Space Equinox The Nightingales of Hades
1
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Posted - 2013.08.07 11:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shantetha wrote:Luc Chastot wrote:CCP Rise wrote:It's not only an issue of travel. The 24 hour timer doesn't fit because it seems to say that you should be able to jump once a day, but in practice it's often more like every other day. Just because we want it to actually be once a day does not mean we want substantially more freedom in clone jumping overall.
I agree that most people will be using it to move clones for an activity, not for travel, but we don't want that to not come with cost. It is not the goal that everyone will be able to be in the ideal implant set for any activity at any time. We are happy with the cost (risk/time loss/travel) and decision making associated with clone jumping and don't want to eliminate that with this change. I don't think people go like "oh, I have a clone that is perfect for this thing I want to do now, but as I can't jump at this time, I will go and do it less efficiently". The jump clone timers and the attributes/training implants mechanics are terrible and don't get along at all. Attributes/training implants mechanics are as bad as learning skills, tbh. It really isn't an interesting choice, nor is it fun and that is why they were phased out. Attributes/training implants mechanics should be just removed for a flat SP per day; this would best be done in conjunction with the ending of the active skill queue and the flat accrual of SP into a spending pool for you to assign. But that would cause a majority of veterans to cry and wail about hills, snow, walking, and no feet or some such silliness. The easiest solution for CCP to do, without making the BitterVets cry foul, is eliminate the +4 & +5 stat implants, increase all base stats by 2, implement corpse reprocessing for implant salvage and then put in implant BPOs for low-grade implants +1 & +2 stats yes 2 tiers complete with the percent bonus contribution in 2 levels 2.5 percent & 5 percent. Allow invention to create the high-grade bpc's +3 stats / 5 percent . The materials necessary for the implants should be something like PI materials, minerals, and implant salvage. For the high grade implants they could require r32 / r64 as well like t2 parts/ships etc. (i'm not an industrialist so someone else should figured out what would best) This still rewards those players who risk more money with a slightly better training time. Makes the choices of which JC you use actually interesting, not can i jump back to Training Body today or tomorrow and how much further away is random skill V now because i keep switching to a pvp body.
IF you remove the +4 and +5 it would only make +3 cost around 1 bil instead sense it would be the best implant. It really would not solve anything, also you do not HAVE to use implants, you are not forced to use implants for faster SP
Just complain and want to have them just cause X and Y have them and have a edge over you is just a bit stupid.
I like a game where it IS hard to find gear, for people who manage to actually make a huge income, it takes effort, ISK don't literately land in your lap wile you twiddle your thumbs |

Rainbow Prism Colorblind
Deep Space Equinox The Nightingales of Hades
1
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Posted - 2013.08.07 11:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:[quote=Adam Lyon][quote=CCP Rise]It's not only an issue of travel. The 24 hour timer doesn't fit because it seems to say that you should be able to jump once a day, but in practice it's often more like every other day. Just because we want it to actually be once a day does not mean we want substantially more freedom in clone jumping overall.
I agree that most people will be using it to move clones for an activity, not for travel, but we don't want that to not come with cost. It is not the goal that everyone will be able to be in the ideal implant set for any activity at any time. We are happy with the cost (risk/time loss/travel) and decision making associated with clone jumping and don't want to eliminate that with this change. With all due respect, why does it matter what you want? Shouldn't it be what the players want? You make the game, but we're the ones who literally pay your salary. We're not asking to easy-fy EVE, we're asking to play the game without sitting in station waiting for a pointless timer to go off. I've said before and I'll say it again--waiting in station for 12 hours because I wanted to PVE yesterday makes me just shut off the game. Is that what you want from your players?
your not FORCED to stay in station, your not FORCED to use implants, it is YOUR chooise stop point fingers at others and actually do something yourself, plan ahead is not that hard, a extra day is not to much loss of time.
The world don't end just cause you do not play the game for a extra day. |

Rainbow Prism Colorblind
Deep Space Equinox The Nightingales of Hades
1
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Posted - 2013.08.07 11:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Update:
We had a chat this morning and will be leaving this as a skill rather than changing the base timer.
There are good points on both sides, and it depends a lot on how you are using jump clones, but because there certainly will be strategic implications for at least some players, we feel that having this as a skill fits well. It is by no means mandatory like the old learning skills, and it is not purely a quality of life change (although that is certainly a large part of the design goal), so it makes sense to have training associated with it.
I don't get it. What other type of change is it other than a quality of life change? What are the other design goals? What "strategic implications" are you talking about? "When you are ready for jump clones, be sure to spend an extra day to train this to L4"...That is some grand strategy? CCP Rise wrote: The skill will be rank 2 and will cost very little so for the players that want to use it there won't be significant barriers.
What is the point in adding a barrier to the game that is not significant? If its not significant, why have it at all? Just give it to everyone for free. To me this looks like adding complexity for the sake of complexity. This as a skill does not enrich the game. It just adds a little speed bump. What is gained by having this a skill over just a base timer change?
Hmm, what is this talk about barriers, and why you you NEED to train the skill? your not forced to have the skill learned, you talk about as you HAVE to have all skills to max, witch you really don't, heck for pvp you can get a new toon trainfor 2 weeks then get into a rifter and have fun in LS no problem at all! time never is waste unless you decide it will be.
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Rainbow Prism Colorblind
Deep Space Equinox The Nightingales of Hades
1
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Posted - 2013.08.07 11:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:Vincent Athena wrote: What is the point in adding a barrier to the game that is not significant? If its not significant, why have it at all? Just give it to everyone for free.
To me this looks like adding complexity for the sake of complexity. This as a skill does not enrich the game. It just adds a little speed bump. What is gained by having this a skill over just a base timer change?
Another isk sink. Another stretching of the skill queue - insuring more revenue (if people stick around).
If you not need the skill you don't need to train it, simple |

Rainbow Prism Colorblind
Deep Space Equinox The Nightingales of Hades
1
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Posted - 2013.08.07 11:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
suid0 wrote:Vincent Athena wrote: What is the point in adding a barrier to the game that is not significant? If its not significant, why have it at all? Just give it to everyone for free.
To me this looks like adding complexity for the sake of complexity. This as a skill does not enrich the game. It just adds a little speed bump. What is gained by having this a skill over just a base timer change?
yeah, you are right... what's the point in having to train skills at all... we should all just be given all V characters so we can get on with playing the game... wow...
+1 to you for actually understanding that the game is about hardship and not just get everything maxed out within a week. ^^/
Lets keep the game Cruel, evil and hard! and love it for it! |

Rainbow Prism Colorblind
Deep Space Equinox The Nightingales of Hades
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 11:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:You should remove jump clones from the game.
Ehe, it would solve the topic at lest.
I would not mind it, it would make the game intresting. ^^ |

Rainbow Prism Colorblind
Deep Space Equinox The Nightingales of Hades
1
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Posted - 2013.08.08 16:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Updated OP to reflect that we are also going to add another skill in this patch which allows for 5 more jump clones per character, bringing the max up to 10.
Many people asked for this skill and while we don't expect most players to need it, we wanted to support those that do. The skill will be called "Advanced Infomorph Psychology" and will require basic informorph to be level 5 before training.
Oh more clones, I am not to sure if its a good or bad thing with more clones, but yes it would help in some things. Any change have its good and bad side, lets find out what it may have on this.
Lets hope it not get to powerful of a tool. |
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